There's been so much talk about "Extraction Games" becoming the next genre that takes off lately, at least from publishers. I think this is a very silly idea and that it's not happening any time soon - definitely not on the same level as Battle Royales have. When I found out that *Marathon*, Bungie's next big game, was going to be an extraction shooter, I rolled my eyes. Maybe I'm an idiot, but I just don't get the mass appeal. **Mass** is the keyword here. Battle Royale games like Fortnite, Apex, and Warzone are on an unreal level of popularity, with no signs of stopping any time soon. What's the major bottleneck that keeps extraction shooters from popping off? I think it boils down to one major thing: ## What is the Point? The thought that got these notes going in my head. What are you building towards in an extraction shooter? The loop is to extract with better and better loot, but for what? To spawn into the next match with a better load-out? Okay...cool, I guess. I can see the appeal of a roguelike sort of approach like that. But even roguelikes end[^1] eventually, and are designed around a mix of luck and theory-crafting that let you steamroll your opponents more efficiently with every run, learning from your mistakes along the way. I've seen some arguments that the Extraction genre is about risk vs reward, that it's meant to be a hardcore, punishing experience. That's fine in and of itself, but it doesn't exactly strike me as being of mass appeal, which is why I'm shocked that Bungie is doing what they're doing with *Marathon* in the first place. Games like battle royals work because [[2020-10-12-apex-legends-and-the-freedom-of-battle-royals|they're freeing]] in a casual way. You can drop in over and over again and see how long you can survive, gun for first place, or fuck around doing car flips in Fortnite or whatever. Extraction Shooters feel too competitive in comparison. Better loot helps you win more loops, but dying makes your next run more difficult. You can't play to have fun: you have to play to not lose. I'm curious to see what could be done to make the genre more appealing to the average person. I definitely think it's an uphill battle. I'm actually going to be keeping this note around and updating it, seeing if I change my mind as more info on *Marathon* shows up. I'm not a game dev by any stretch - I'm sure Bungie has some tricks that I can't think of myself. But time will tell if they're actually effective. [^1]: Endless modes notwithstanding. You get my point!