(If you're looking for videos of talks, [[Event videos|go here]].) - [[#Interviews *of* me (ie I was being interviewed)]] - [[#Interviews *by* me (ie I was the interviewer)]] # Interviews *of* me (ie I was being interviewed) #### [Let's stop making each other feel stupid, SAG '25](https://www.linkedin.com/events/let-sstopmakingeachotherfeelstu7397170480962719744/theater/) [![Screenshot2025-12-03at13.50.14.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_13.50.14.jpg)](https://www.linkedin.com/events/let-sstopmakingeachotherfeelstu7397170480962719744/theater/)<span class="center-align">Nov '25: iSAQB LiveStream from SAG Berlin</span> ### Test Driven Development and LLM-Augmented Coding <span class="center-align">Nov '25: iSAQB Expert Interview from SAG Berlin (NOT PUBLISHED YET)</span> ### [Slow down to go fast: TDD in the age of AI](https://youtu.be/S28iltNb0jA) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_14.30.08.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_14.30.08.jpg)](https://youtu.be/S28iltNb0jA)<span class="center-align">Sep '25: Bugbash podcast (TW Lim / Youhana Naseim / David Wynn)</span> #### [Why ensemble working builds stronger engineering teams](https://www.softwire.com/insights/why-ensemble-working-builds-stronger-engineering-teams-with-clare-sudbery/) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_14.33.25.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_14.33.25.jpg)](https://www.softwire.com/insights/why-ensemble-working-builds-stronger-engineering-teams-with-clare-sudbery/)<span class="center-align">Sep '25: Digital Lighthouse podcast (Softwire), Zoe Cunningam</span> #### [Trunk dialling only, no branching out](https://shows.acast.com/quality-blether/episodes/688160332a38d6f5cb162996) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_14.36.35.jpg|center|300](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_14.36.35.jpg)]([https://shows.acast.com/quality-blether/episodes/688160332a38d6f5cb162996](https://shows.acast.com/quality-blether/episodes/688160332a38d6f5cb162996))<span class="center-align">Aug '25: Bryan Jones, Quality Blether pod, trunk based development</span> #### [TDD in the Age of AI: Trust Tests, Ship Quality](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4P05H440RM) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_15.27.59.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_15.27.59.jpg)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4P05H440RM)<span class="center-align">Aug '25: Brian Milner, Agile Mentors podcast (Mountain Goat software)</span> #### [Teaching the Abstract](https://www.thelabviewexperiment.com/episodes/season3-episode7-teaching-the-abstract) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.09.55.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.09.55.jpg)](https://www.thelabviewexperiment.com/episodes/season3-episode7-teaching-the-abstract)<span class="center-align">Jan '25: Sam Taggart - Labview podcast</span> #### [MTF24 - Speaker Interviews - Clare Sudbery](https://youtu.be/8wbJkpTLvio?si=5p7fnN8JLr4AAhJN) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.25.07.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.25.07.jpg)](https://youtu.be/8wbJkpTLvio?si=5p7fnN8JLr4AAhJN)<span class="center-align">Aug '24: Mcr Tech Fest - speaker interview</span> #### [Continuous Integration and TDD](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7vpkCBad2U) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.26.43.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.26.43.jpg)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7vpkCBad2U)<span class="center-align">May '24: Devoxx UK '24, Build Propulsion Lab podcast with Baruch Sadogursky</span> #### [Why you should hire juniors and how to onboard them into your tech team](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt2nyH-FZZk) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.27.55.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.27.55.jpg)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt2nyH-FZZk)<span class="center-align">Mar '24: Andrew Murphy interview</span> #### [Technical Coaching with Clare Sudbery - What and Why?](https://youtu.be/Y9pak_0hMqo) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.29.01.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.29.01.jpg)](https://youtu.be/Y9pak_0hMqo)<span class="center-align">Jan '24: Interview with Mike Coon / Declan Michaels</span> #### [Asking questions is a good way of teaching](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mbLjWK8YDM) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.30.05.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.30.05.jpg)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mbLjWK8YDM)<span class="center-align">Jun '22: Yves Hanoulle - "Who is Agile?" interview</span> #### [Learning through the Ensemble](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5hbonDKITo) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.31.30.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.31.30.jpg)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5hbonDKITo)<span class="center-align">Apr '22: Mob Mentality podcast, with Chris Lucian and Austin Chadwick</span> #### [Self Compassion](https://legacycoderocks.libsyn.com/self-compassion-with-clare-sudbery) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.32.44.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.32.44.jpg)](https://legacycoderocks.libsyn.com/self-compassion-with-clare-sudbery)<span class="center-align">Feb '22: Legacy Code Rocks podcast, with Andrea Goulet and M. Scott Ford</span> #### [Extreme Programming](https://music.amazon.de/podcasts/e23ccd0d-5bbf-4e95-a98b-c9fe3adb2eed/episodes/ef8464ac-25aa-4ef9-9e76-14cd82b1611f/agile-fm-120-clare-sudbery) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.37.45.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.37.45.jpg)](https://music.amazon.de/podcasts/e23ccd0d-5bbf-4e95-a98b-c9fe3adb2eed/episodes/ef8464ac-25aa-4ef9-9e76-14cd82b1611f/agile-fm-120-clare-sudbery)<span class="center-align">Aug '21: Agile FM podcast, with Joe Krebs</span> #### [Technical Focus - the missing piece for Scrum Masters/Agile Coaches](https://scrum-master-toolbox.org/2021/08/podcast/bonus-clare-sudbery-technical-focus-the-missing-piece-for-scrum-masters-agile-coaches) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.40.59.jpg|center|100](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.40.59.jpg)](https://scrum-master-toolbox.org/2021/08/podcast/bonus-clare-sudbery-technical-focus-the-missing-piece-for-scrum-masters-agile-coaches)<span class="center-align">Aug '21: Scrum Toolbox podcast, with Vasco Duarte</span> #### [Clare Sudbery surfing on her own imposter syndrome](https://devjourney.info/Guests/156-ClareSudbery.html) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.43.35.jpg|center|300](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.43.35.jpg)](https://devjourney.info/Guests/156-ClareSudbery.html)<span class="center-align">Jun '21: DevJourney podcast, with Tim Bourguignon</span> #### [Architecture, Tech leadership, Engineering](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dUs8nf9BNw) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.45.28.jpg|center|250](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.45.28.jpg)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dUs8nf9BNw)<span class="center-align">May '21: Alex Balboaca - Think. Design. Work Smart. Podcast</span> #### [5-min “day in the life” re my job at Made Tech (2021)](https://youtu.be/hjWBKJuhp28) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_21.23.40.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_21.23.40.jpg)](https://youtu.be/hjWBKJuhp28) <span class="center-align">May '21: Made Tech Intros</span> #### [My career](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU_M34QAHeo&feature=youtu.be) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.46.28.jpg|center|250](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.46.28.jpg)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU_M34QAHeo&feature=youtu.be)<span class="center-align">Jul '20: Chris Walker - Techifi Talks</span> #### [Refactoring Should Be Part of Your Daily Work](https://maintainable.fm/episodes/clare-sudbery-refactoring-should-be-part-of-your-daily-work) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.47.48.jpg|center|300](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.47.48.jpg)](https://maintainable.fm/episodes/clare-sudbery-refactoring-should-be-part-of-your-daily-work)<span class="center-align">Apr '20: Robby Russell - Maintainable podcast</span> #### [Teaching Experienced Developers](https://www.dotnetrocks.com/?show=1621) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.48.36.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.48.36.jpg)](https://www.dotnetrocks.com/?show=1621)<span class="center-align">Feb '19: .Net Rocks podcast</span> #### [Let's stop making each other feel stupid](https://poddtoppen.se/podcast/992128516/agile-amped-podcast-inspiring-conversations/lets-stop-making-people-feel-stupid) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.51.12.jpg|center|300](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.51.12.jpg)](https://poddtoppen.se/podcast/992128516/agile-amped-podcast-inspiring-conversations/lets-stop-making-people-feel-stupid)<span class="center-align">Aug '18: Chris Murman - AgileAmped podcast</span> #### [How XP can improve the experiences of female developers](https://cucumber.io/blog/podcast/how-xp-can-improve-the-experiences-of-female-softw/) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.54.28.jpg|center|300](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.54.28.jpg)](https://cucumber.io/blog/podcast/how-xp-can-improve-the-experiences-of-female-softw/)<span class="center-align">Sep '16: Theo England - Cucumber podcast</span> #### [Stemette Life interview (ffwd to 9:25)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2NTWigS0I4&t=565s) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_21.31.48.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_21.31.48.jpg)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2NTWigS0I4&t=565s)<span class="center-align">Oct '15: Interview with Head Stemette Anne-Marie Imafidon</span> # Interviews *by* me (ie I was the interviewer) #### [Andreas Zeller - The Debugging Book](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNRIJsoi-Ds) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.55.48.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.55.48.jpg)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNRIJsoi-Ds)<span class="center-align">Jul '25: GOTO book club</span> #### [Karl Dickman - Product management and STEM Diversity](https://youtu.be/Im6nwACNeq8?si=HIt8VL0O423K_6mJ) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg)](https://youtu.be/Im6nwACNeq8?si=HIt8VL0O423K_6mJ)<span class="center-align">Apr '22: Making Tech Better podcast (Karl Dickman)</span> #### [Katy Armstrong - Servant leadership](https://youtu.be/Gv-4TUQi6kQ?si=GbgDz9zalUXTooaF) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg)](https://youtu.be/Gv-4TUQi6kQ?si=GbgDz9zalUXTooaF)<span class="center-align">Mar '22: Making Tech Better podcast (Katy Armstrong)</span> #### [Alex Herbert - LGBT+ History](https://youtu.be/JXZx0ByjdGg?si=YDA5swiP-7_1oy_A) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg)](https://youtu.be/JXZx0ByjdGg?si=YDA5swiP-7_1oy_A)<span class="center-align">Mar '22: Making Tech Better podcast (Alex Herbert)</span> #### [Ryan Bergman - Open source landscape](https://youtu.be/5TWwOpESGgw?si=Q3YaRnFR76--dvyP) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg)](https://youtu.be/5TWwOpESGgw?si=Q3YaRnFR76--dvyP)<span class="center-align">Mar '22: Making Tech Better podcast (Ryan Bergman)</span> #### [Dr J Harrison - Inclusive teams](https://youtu.be/QI_oopCT8_8?si=eZqzcwodd-mM7eDQ) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg)](https://youtu.be/QI_oopCT8_8?si=eZqzcwodd-mM7eDQ)<span class="center-align">Feb '22: Making Tech Better podcast (Dr J Harrison)</span> #### [Ted M. Young - Hexagonal architecture](https://youtu.be/zpITtO-5d-o?si=eP8WgHbRqch9jCTy) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg)](https://youtu.be/zpITtO-5d-o?si=eP8WgHbRqch9jCTy)<span class="center-align">Feb '22: Making Tech Better podcast (Ted M. Young)</span> #### [Catt Small - Inspirational stories](https://youtu.be/n6ymRUe0joA?si=c1lFzpUJe9c1EeJ9) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg)](https://youtu.be/n6ymRUe0joA?si=c1lFzpUJe9c1EeJ9)<span class="center-align">Jan '22: Making Tech Better podcast (Catt Small)</span> #### [Lou Downe - Good Services](https://youtu.be/zueQGcxmk1E?si=h5AAsFKLW4KPmsHG) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg)](https://youtu.be/zueQGcxmk1E?si=h5AAsFKLW4KPmsHG)<span class="center-align">Jan '22: Making Tech Better podcast (Lou Downe)</span> #### [Sam Newman - Microservices](https://youtu.be/e40JDWGeGwE?si=8nXm8iLYSnIrk2Cr) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg)](https://youtu.be/e40JDWGeGwE?si=8nXm8iLYSnIrk2Cr)<span class="center-align">Dec '21: Making Tech Better podcast (Sam Newman)</span> #### [Craig Bass - How to build an academy](https://youtu.be/-pMq6GgKQuU?si=86vZDjA19-HxrYme) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg)](https://youtu.be/-pMq6GgKQuU?si=86vZDjA19-HxrYme)<span class="center-align">Nov '21: Making Tech Better podcast (Craig Bass)</span> #### [Emily Bache - Refactoring](https://youtu.be/ZcEz8cA017M?si=tYhdCbp851oiyLSz) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg)](https://youtu.be/ZcEz8cA017M?si=tYhdCbp851oiyLSz)<span class="center-align">Nov '21: Making Tech Better podcast (Emily Bache)</span> #### [Daniel Terhorst-North - When is a test not a test?](https://youtu.be/s9QLJeB5GeY?si=Xv3VTltbL1dQ-RNL) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg)](https://youtu.be/s9QLJeB5GeY?si=Xv3VTltbL1dQ-RNL)<span class="center-align">Oct '21: Making Tech Better podcast (Daniel Terhorst-North)</span> #### [Charlene Hunter - Black history month: Diversity and training](https://youtu.be/4mbbmaEB3ag?si=PsD7TR6SDYMLaXGJ) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg)](https://youtu.be/4mbbmaEB3ag?si=PsD7TR6SDYMLaXGJ)<span class="center-align">Oct '21: Making Tech Better podcast (Charlene Hunter)</span> #### [Matthew Skelton - Team topologies](https://youtu.be/RCAKO1zTpJo?si=Z4LlFjy2jDXV9WwV) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg)](https://youtu.be/RCAKO1zTpJo?si=Z4LlFjy2jDXV9WwV)<span class="center-align">Sep '21: Making Tech Better podcast (Matthew Skelton)</span> #### [Geepaw Hill - Test Driven Development](https://youtu.be/jJauO_q5dq8?si=unklGgsIBrMoICKX) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg)](https://youtu.be/jJauO_q5dq8?si=unklGgsIBrMoICKX)<span class="center-align">Sep '21: Making Tech Better podcast (Geepaw Hill)</span> #### [Mia Ridge - Crowdsourcing](https://youtu.be/CFaFzqlxlCA?si=a0tiY4uTHAFBnRU7) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg)](https://youtu.be/CFaFzqlxlCA?si=a0tiY4uTHAFBnRU7)<span class="center-align">Aug '21: Making Tech Better podcast (Mia Ridge)</span> #### [Jon Hassell - Digital accessibility](https://youtu.be/Z3yCTxANQbY?si=iFKwMDlF83k_Ve7y) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg)](https://youtu.be/Z3yCTxANQbY?si=iFKwMDlF83k_Ve7y)<span class="center-align">Aug '21: Making Tech Better podcast (Jon Hassell)</span> #### [Emily Webber - Communities of practice](https://youtu.be/9OD4t-DV_sc?si=52VVhoyZ2tzG73iO) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg)](https://youtu.be/9OD4t-DV_sc?si=52VVhoyZ2tzG73iO)<span class="center-align">Aug '21: Making Tech Better podcast (Emily Webber)</span> #### [Fritz von Runte - Service Design](https://youtu.be/4s4uhSuCr8s?si=fI6YMTzB-Keww2WA) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg)](https://youtu.be/4s4uhSuCr8s?si=fI6YMTzB-Keww2WA)<span class="center-align">Jul '21: Making Tech Better podcast (Fritz von Runte)</span> #### [Meri Williams - Changing legacy systems](https://youtu.be/OPbw4uogtvY?si=KRN2ImLdA0o0GZKX) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg)](https://youtu.be/OPbw4uogtvY?si=KRN2ImLdA0o0GZKX)<span class="center-align">Jul '21: Making Tech Better podcast (Meri Williams)</span> #### [Anne-Marie Imafidon - Celebrating Women in Engineering day](https://youtu.be/FGWTPC43AvQ?si=sUgakNF1IyAleDez) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg)](https://youtu.be/FGWTPC43AvQ?si=sUgakNF1IyAleDez)<span class="center-align">Jun '21: Making Tech Better podcast (Anne-Marie Imafidon)</span> #### [Kevlin Henney - Balancing Change](https://youtu.be/y86olBUtdAI?si=PB7mscR22dyRejbE) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg)](https://youtu.be/y86olBUtdAI?si=PB7mscR22dyRejbE)<span class="center-align">Jun '21: Making Tech Better podcast (Kevlin Henney)</span> #### [Esther Derby - People and patterns](https://youtu.be/y4lOKPoauY4?si=HCnUdh7Qft2XnkEs) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg)](https://youtu.be/y4lOKPoauY4?si=HCnUdh7Qft2XnkEs)<span class="center-align">May '21: Making Tech Better podcast (Esther Derby)</span> #### [Aino Corry - Retrospectives anti-patterns](https://youtu.be/gqVGRzpuOjA?si=M19Z_fcb32UxejCq) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg)](https://youtu.be/gqVGRzpuOjA?si=M19Z_fcb32UxejCq)<span class="center-align">May '21: Making Tech Better podcast (Aino Corry)</span> #### [Dave Rogers - Toxic technology](https://youtu.be/4GbrEq9fTh4?si=W9aAmbN2fzPTRLVu) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg)](https://youtu.be/4GbrEq9fTh4?si=W9aAmbN2fzPTRLVu)<span class="center-align">Apr '21: Making Tech Better podcast (Dave Rogers)</span> #### [Jessica Kerr - Team learning](https://youtu.be/msh7bVBVH-0?si=LxJi2NgbBeIboveH) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg)](https://youtu.be/msh7bVBVH-0?si=LxJi2NgbBeIboveH)<span class="center-align">Apr '21: Making Tech Better podcast (Jessica Kerr)</span> #### [Jon Skeet - Coding for fun](https://youtu.be/wROy2JOMqSM?si=tVFlaB-G-M3x_r5a) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg)](https://youtu.be/wROy2JOMqSM?si=tVFlaB-G-M3x_r5a)<span class="center-align">Apr '21: Making Tech Better podcast (Jon Skeet)</span> #### [Kit Collingwood - Tech for the common good](https://youtu.be/l-XB8a_lVtI?si=aunZfKArQ1ixWdbV) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg)](https://youtu.be/l-XB8a_lVtI?si=aunZfKArQ1ixWdbV)<span class="center-align">Apr '21: Making Tech Better podcast (Kit Collingwood)</span> #### [Paula Paul - Transformation and modernisation](https://youtu.be/8_EK8DClBIU?si=VhtdQoQytZLGdGhh) [![Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg|center|200](Screenshot_2025-12-03_at_16.56.54.jpg)](https://youtu.be/8_EK8DClBIU?si=VhtdQoQytZLGdGhh)<span class="center-align">Apr '21: Making Tech Better podcast (Paula Paul)</span>